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Way Finding with Nikki Innocent

Way Finding is OwnTrail’s interview series where co-founder Kt McBratney has an authentic conversation with a guest about the detours, decisions and twists in their professional journey. In this episode of Way Finding, they discuss learning and unlearning in a way that supports our whole self with Nikki Innocent.

KT MCBRATNEY: Welcome to wayfinding. I am Kt McBratney, the co-founder of OwnTrail and Way Finding is our series where we talk about the detours, the decisions, the ins and outs and twists and turns of our journeys that don’t make it onto the resume.

And so here we’re today going to talk with our amazing guest, who has been called possibly my favorite description of a person of all time, the human embodiment of the Care Bear stare, Nikki innocent, who is joining us after some travels, a literal journey but also has an incredible trail that we are going to link to so check it out to learn more about Nikki. Which where she’s been, what she’s up to, and where she’s going next, but an incredible journey that has really woven through her personal and professional sides to align them and really positioning her for where she is now as an inclusive leadership coach.

Nikki, thank you for joining us.

NIKKI INNOCENT: Oh, thank you Kt. Thank you so much for having me. I am such a fan of OwnTrail. I am such a fan of you, and I am amped to be talking about how we can like embrace all of who we are to really acknowledge that like there’s no separate part. They’re all connected to each other. Yeah.

KT: Today the lens that we thought about or that we were approaching this conversation, it’s really around this idea of learning and unlearning, and I wanted to talk with you in particular out of all of the people I know, out of all of the thousands of people on OwnTrail, I was like I got to see what Nikki’s got to say about this.

Because of your unique perspective from your experiences and your identities and your career specifically, as well as where you are today as a coach, right? So this idea of continued learning is not new. It’s not novel and yet we still have a lot to unpack around it.

NIKKI:Yeah.

KT: To kick this off, I’d love to hear just like your take in general about the value or the purpose of of this continual learning and unlearning, especially when we feel like we know ourselves a bit.

NIKKI: Yeah, you know I’m I’m amped about this because I think there is so much of how we identify ourselves with how we view our approach to being successful at learning.

And the idea of unlearning something is like wait, what that’s, nope. I was supposed to be a sponge of everything all the time and get the right answer and hold on to that right answer all the way through even if new information told me otherwise and so I think one of the things that is so powerful about the idea of really assessing your relationship to learning and therefore on learning and the spectrum of all the in-between of just accruing more knowledge is really about discovering yourself and yourself in all the different facets of how you show up in the world.

And so for me personally, learning has been something, I’m like picturing young me with my two parents where I was the kid that asked, I started talking very young. At like five months was talking. Sorry everyone. And was asking questions all the time. Like curious was the embodiment of who I was, so yes Care Bear stare, but also like hand up front row. Hi. I have a question. Can you explain this to me? And one of the things that I feel as though is really really powerful and I continue to learn each and every day is I learned that what learning was, traditional learning if you grew up in America and any country that uses a similar education system, was really about obedience and falling in line and following a productive path forward which isn’t necessarily the goal of you being a human being that gets to stand up and take space and live in the full value
of your worth just because you’re here, and so the idea that we’re taught what learning is through a very narrow lens of productivity of falling in line and kind of abandoning who you are in order to be the most efficient robot to to a degree, and to be seen as successful with something that I never even got a chance to consider until I kind of unplugged from The Matrix of it all to be like, oh wait. Yes, I I know how to learn that way but there are so many other lanes.

I think the biggest kind of blip in The Matrix or like the thing that made me realize oh wait the Matrix is here was that I was following a path professionally and personally that I thought was kind of the guaranteed path to be successful, to be safe, to heal trauma, to resolve any kind of generational wounds that are being passed down all that. I thought I was I had to follow the straight and narrow and whatever the straight and narrow might mean to you. I will say in my life, it was a very white male, analytical rigid path.

It was a path where I had to lose so much of myself and perform a certain way in order to fit in line. And I
say all that now with retrospect but in the moment…are you kidding?! I don’t think I knew all of those elements, even though I had a mother that spoke a lot about women’s rights at a very young age and I am biracial and so very obviously the questions of who, what are you? were very very young. So I knew I kind of didn’t fit whatever that path was.

So I was always trying to like chameleon myself into fit in that path, but being able to witness that by following what were the right steps of, you know, getting good grades going to school and and you know, being part of all the things getting all the extracurriculars, following a career that was supposedly traditionally what success look like, being in rooms with people that had some of the most powerful influences in not just our country but in the world, in the economy and the stock market all that and still feeling like what this is empty. I’m not I’m not… Why, why? I’ve learned all these things. I followed what you taught me. They’re not working and no matter what I do, I seem to just be hitting the same wall. And so realizing, wait a second this path to learning isn’t equal. It’s not something that allows me to be a person because even to get to that spot I had to lose so much of who I was in the process.

“This path to learning isn’t equal. It’s not something that allows me to be a person because even to get to that spot I had to lose so much of who I was in the process.”

I realized oh, there’s got to be some, there’s like a whole like we — we’ve been given like a very short number of chapters of a much larger book of how life can be, and so in going back to see how what aspects of my life have I actually hidden. And what parts of my trail have I made so people don’t know they exist and what have I curated in my resume to make me look a certain way that has either nullified or covered or just been like look over here, distracted away from the reality of so much of what made me be able to show up in spaces and do great work, but also to have really great relationships and to shine in the way that my Care Bear stare was supposed to it was one of those things that I said. Okay. I’ve been learning either wrong or in a very narrow lens where there’s a much broader spectrum.

So, how can I start kind of questioning, like I did as that kid in the front row asking all the questions, where am I getting my information? Why is it that I can’t be a viable person just by being who I am doing and producing the things you’re telling me but still I’m not succeeding, what’s happening here? And then also, I think I have a — I always thought this was again, I think as people we have the view of our lived experience and think everybody has it until we start realizing that other people have different experiences and you’re like, oh that might be different for them, which again that’s learning that’s not on paper because you’re being taught everybody needs to follow the same path. I have a level of empathy that has at times been distracting and it creates a lot of kind of mental health dynamics where you’re absorbing everybody else’s weight. But that has a beautiful thing to it too where I couldn’t not feel what other people were experiencing, couldn’t not feel that, yeah.

It didn’t feel like was working for me, but it also wasn’t working for other people and there was a part of that that I was like, all right. I’m gonna start asking more questions, maybe there is a playbook for but I want to hear what people have to say and maybe learn more stuff. And so that was the kind of trigger point career-wise to be like, okay. This place isn’t able to provide me at those answers. And also I have no problem asking the questions whether it be for myself or to create space for other people to make to consider or to share their stories. And so that kind of curiosity led to so much expansion in my life. But also expansion of understanding the world around me and this was before the last four years, you know, of us just really having language around how we learn how we have been given very very little amount of information about history and itself which is a kind of a starting point for so much of why we do what we do, why our civilization, our cultures set up as it is that it was such a…

“We lose so much of that potential to unlock all those doors that are closed that we don’t even see that they’re there.”

I feel like it’s — learning is the key to unlock so much of those doors that are closed. But when you think that you’ve learned it all in your first 18 to 20 years and afterwards your job is to just produce and implement. We lose so much of that potential to unlock all those doors that are closed that we don’t even see that they’re there. So part of what I love in the work that I do is not only do I get to be ongoing student but I get to kind of open a forum that says hey have you asked why or what do you think about that? What are you feeling about it and even if you think a lot of times my clients would be like ‘I know this is wrong, but…’ I’m like, that’s the perfect prompt like coming in that way that to me is like, yes, bring it. Like I want to hear it, needs to be heard. It needs to be said, so please bring it here.

KT: There are so many incredible threads in what you just shared and and I wantto underline a few, like one being curiosity right and curiosity’s role in learning and being a true lifelong learner outside of formal institutions. And of course curiosity nearand dear to my heart. It’s one of our one of our values here at OwnTrail and this idea about not just being curious about the world or your industry or what’s next but being curious about yourself and how those pieces fit together.

I think it’s a very powerful thing that you just named and also the role of asking questions in that it as a tool, as a key to unlock doors, but also as a way to unabashedly say that you don’t have all the answers, but you want to learn.

Like so many questions, so as as a coach versus your you mentioned you are more traditional linear path. What has the role? What is the experience of learning when you are in that kind of frame of reference, that model of like ‘work hard play hard but work harder’ because hustle culture and always be producing, always be implementing, always be making somebody else money to a much more, I would say, heart-centered, a much more holistic way of helping people succeed also financially, right, like within these models but rooted in who they are.

So how was the experience of learning or unlearning in that environment? How does that compare or contrast to how you experience learning now?

NIKKI: Well, I will tell you I’m so grateful for the therapy session I had yesterday because the breakthrough that we had is the answer to this so, and I don’t know that it would have been able to say it as hopefully succinctly, I have a lot of words. So we’ll see how this goes.

Okay, I will say that the thing that I have become very aware of in the last couple weeks because I have been like traveling with, there’s a lot of things that have tested my resilience and I feel like I’m pretty resilient through a lot of things in my life. And for sure check out my trail. I am not, I don’t hold much back.

But you know, I think one of the things that I— it was like aha moment to me was that so much of my life in my traditional mold, in the costume,s in the mask,s I put on to succeed in the space that I had to be a quote good employee or a good daughter or a good whatever bucket. I had to be a good ___________ based on someone else’s external metric and validation was this sense of being driven by fear, by survival mode by stress response cycle leading me everywhere I went. So it was like fight or flight but fight or flight and freeze and fawn and all the F’s that go along with the the stress cycle.

That was so much of what motivated the things I did how I reacted how I viewed myself how and when I consumed information and even the information I consumed it was based on urgent Okay what it was kind of paring things down as quickly as possible and making really knee jerk reactions. And the thing about that is that if you are operating in a, in an in space in a space where you have to you have to go really quickly so you have no room for nuance or critical thought you tend to fall in line with what you were taught in that kind of traditional obedience spectrum. So you don’t have the room and the time to ask questions of like is this in alignment with my values? Does this actually work for the goal? We’re trying to reach it’s more. Okay, we’ve done it this way before let’s do it again. Even if we keep running up against the same wall. It must be something I’m doing wrong or you’re doing wrong. It must not be the process because the process is historically been there.

And so I always think about like what what how is my body feeling? What was, what were my operating principles at that time and survival mode? Survival mode and you know again in survival mode, we have a lot of instances of this in our society that like really bad things happen and are given the okay because we’re saying it was based on surviving. I had to do it to survive, but like to send out a newsletter on time isn’t survival. Like a lot of the things we’re doing are not life or death stuff. It’s not survival stuff, but we have been trained with such a significant amount of stress response and especially our generation, perfectionism, that is like failure is survival mode. If you come anywhere close to it. It has created this false sense of just being on alert all the time, which creates this phenomenon or not that we’re seeing with burnout. So that’s I would say that’s a traditional side again.

I thought it’s gonna be short but here we are.

KT: Go with it. I’m down and I am learning as..keep going keep.

NIKKI: Okay, good and this is the kind of the AHA of it. All that’s happened to me in the last, I mean, I think it’s been scratching the door, but I didn’t have it as a formative thought and a formative body feeling again because I will tell you in that fear response, I have no tapping into my body. My body was separate It’s all my mind. I wasn’t listening to my gut. I wasn’t listening to the heat that came up my back. I wasn’t listening to my hand shaking when I shouldn’t be in a place. I wasn’t listening to my stomach, GI issues that I had for years. It wasn’t listening to any of that. But on this side of really tapping into an understanding, what is your learning style? How do you how do you digest information? And how do you communicate information? How can you be in relation with other people rather than feeling like you’re against them? How do you find the complementary elements of how you can work together?

“You’re not meant to be able to be all things to all people. You’re not even meant to be right all the time or to be perfectly showing up in that way all the time you’re able to be a human that stumbles and a human that learns and a human that has the ability to have error.”

There is this sense of calm there’s this sense of peace. There is a sense of like, I wouldn’t, I’ll say effortless but you know less effortful ease that can be in that space when you’re operating from knowing who you are how you operate and understanding you’re not meant to do everything. You’re not meant to be able to be all things to all people. You’re not even meant to be right all the time or to be perfectly showing up in that way all the time you’re able to be a human that stumbles and a human that learns and a human that has the ability to have error. Earlier today…

Actually, it’s so funny. We were talking in a one of our group calls that we have weekly about this kind of juxtaposition of a shining a light on all of these issues in our society that are really really oppressive and the real experience of real time trying to be in relationship with people that might be on the privilege side of that oppression, maybe benefiting from though. They weren’t the people that invented it, how to actually create connection to overcome the oppressive dynamics and a huge part of that is this belief that if you are one with privilege or you are somebody that’s benefiting from a system of oppression than you are bad. And if you are somebody that you know is shining a light on, in and experiencing it there’s some semblance of good because of that and we have this very binary dynamic in our society that like you’re either good or your bad, but you can’t be the the human in the middle that we’re all trying to navigate that stuff. And when we have that kind of again, I think it was like a little kid when we tell a little kid something’s good or something’s bad. It’s very black and white. It’s very simple. You want to keep doing good things. If you do a bad thing you’re punished but there’s so much in between and there’s there are even elements that aren’t meant to be judged good or bad. They just are and so that level of kind of calm, that space you can hold to be able to look at things without feeling like you need to judge it right away provides you is so much helpful information, so many insights that you can tap into the wonderful kind of intuition that you have that gives you information on top of the stuff that’s being given to you. So you have that ability to connect only with yourself and externally with the world around you and the people around you that you can hopefully continue to move forward in a way that iterates in evolutionary way and not what we’ve been experiencing lately where there is this fear of the uncertain.

So we like we boomerang backwards into stuff that just seems so like, prehistoric isn’t right, but it has that feeling of like really and so that happens when we don’t have the comfort with not knowing, you don’t have the comfort with being like the unknown is an okay place to be it might be scary but scary is okay scary is not bad scary’s not good. It’s an emotion and experience we have and especially when we’re making progress to something new, which is very much where we are right now, scary is an inherent part of that kind of change and so I think going from stress response and chaos and fear to kind of this ease and peacefulness that you you accrue over time. And again, it doesn’t mean that once you’re in fear mode, you can never be peaceful or once you’re peaceful kind of calm mode you can never be in fear mode.

We have this kind of fear mechanism as it’s supposed to be a part of how our body processes the world. But if we’re only operating there it short circuits our ability to get so much other wisdom within ourselves.

KT: You know when you talked about the operating from the stress response and operating from a place of urgency. We just had our book club meeting where we talked about the book emergent strategy, which if you’ve read it chime in on OwnTrail. It’s

phenomenal and but in the conversation somebody in the OwnTrai community brought up this idea that you don’t hear those words together often and oftentimes when you hear about any kind of strategy, especially in a workplace, it has a sense of urgency not emergency and I mean emergent-cy, right, like it’s emerging and the dynamic between those two as possibly being one of many poles of a three-dimensional spectrum, right that the more you’re operating on the sense of reactionary urgent the less you are letting things emerge, the less you’re listening to your body, the less you’re paying attention to the dynamics and I think that’s a really cool throughline from completely separate conversations

And then also as you were talking about the the chaos and the fear-based uncertainty. that drives different kind of learning than the things you might learn if you’re operating from acceptance or as you described at the ease of uncertainty and we are very much conditioned that not knowing is a failure not an opportunity, and there’s lots of adages, there’s lots of handy idioms out there about like there’s no such thing as failure as long as you learned. Chime in on that everyone, because everybody’s got their own take on how much they believein that.

NIKI: Yeah.

KT: However, it’s like this idea that if you’re only operating out of fear, if you’re always trying to to not get found out for not already knowing things, you failed or you haven’t won or you’re not good enough, whereas if you’re like accepting of this idea that we’re constantly learning even if we’re not seeking out knowledge. Yeah, it’s a different you open up space to learn not just different things but in different ways. Yeah, and I’m curious, you’ve touched a lot about on your past versus now and the journey right, the journey to get there and the learning that you’ve doneand continue to do.

I’m curious. When you seek out learning when you’re like I need to fill my knowledge cup or little Nikki raises her hand in your head and you need to, you want to find something out or you want to stoke that curiosity, what are your go-to’s? Are you, are you like, you go to a certain site, you go to a certain person, is it you listen to your body? Where where are your favorite sources to gain learning from at any part of your life?

NIKKI: First of all, I love the question because one of the things that one of the things that popped in my mind is you were talking about kind of the adages was we can say all the things we want to say, but if our behavior is the opposite of the things we’re saying then it will never resonate, it will feel fraudulent. It will feel like there is no there’s no there there. That might sound cute and sound cool and may work for some people. But if you’re saying that to me and then you’re punishing me for failure, then I my learned behavior as I cannot fail. Adages and all.

And I think that that’s actually a huge part of where I seek to find spaces for learning, find information for learning for me. It’s really about who’s walking the walk not just saying it but like how does it play out real time? I am and I think the further along in my journey of understanding the world around me and how I want to show up more fully. I’m even more discerning of how and who I consume or – I should say this. I will consume a lot of information from a lot of different places, but how deeply I’ll digest because at this point I shouldn’t say everybody but there is a very easy way to have prominence online. There aren’t as many gatekeepers which again, I think it’s a good thing we don’t have as many gatekeepers. However, it does take individual discernment and the ability to trust your intuition. Hopefully if you have access to that but really trust your ability to think critically when there is so much information being presented to you at the same level of credibility. So I think there is a level for me that’s watching How you you talk the talk? But how are you at? How does it actually playing out? Some of that can be in a short-term? Okay. I actually spent a lot of time when I’m learning from like I want to see how they interact, so like video is super helpful for me and oftentimes it’s video and something like a podcast or like on a speaking gig something where it’s not necessarily prepared comments, but their ability to to dance around with what they’re talking like actually be a human being in connection with the work they’re talking about.

I think that that’s really important because we can all learn a script, so I was saying I was really great with the masks and the costumes and the script of what I used to have to do and I was very convincing about it because I believed it and so it’s really about like watching, seeing and seeing how that person walks the talk and I do think what you were talking about about the internal feeling. I always and I work with clients on this all the time. If you’re consuming information that makes you feel like s*** about yourself, about the world and it’s the work that you’re trying to do to like do personal development work and move yourself forward. That ain’t it. The goal isn’t for you to feel like less of a person to step more into yourself. That’s not it.

“If you’re consuming information that makes you feel like s*** about yourself, about the world and it’s the work that you’re trying to do to like do personal development work and move yourself forward. That ain’t it. The goal isn’t for you to feel like less of a person to step more into yourself. That’s not it.”

So I do think we have, we have I think of like, I don’t know, 90s feels ,like it’s we’ve talked about this before, it feels like it’s a lot closer than it is but you know, the kind of Tony Robbins era of stuff. There was a lot of like the self-help stuff that was kind of like break you down to build you up to like burn your feet to make you feel strong, like that whole way of operating so we still have that in our culture, as like in order for you to succeed you need to focus on where you suck, you need to like pay attention to that area.
And personally, I haven’t seen that do as much I don’t, good I guess iS the word I was gonna say, but have as much progress for people where they actually come out of it feeling like they can trust themselves. Oftentimes it has you feeling like you can only trust what that guru is saying, what that person who knows way more than you is saying, so you become again a follower rather than understanding and owning your own power your own learning style and your own ability to show up in the world.

And so I find that when I’m learning the most it’s from people that do not see themselves as superior to those that they’re talking to and do you believe in the power of the collective and understand that there are so many elements of oppression that are happening around us that are limiting us that it’s not just like I think of what you’re just talking about the hustle culture. It’s not like just try harder. That’s not it like don’t just it’s like going back to the same wall trying to come out at the same way and say well, it’s you it’s your body. That’s the problem. It’s your lack of strength that’s the problem.

It’s like no it was literally built for you to never go through that. And so I think there’s a lot of messaging for me that’s more about like are you telling me I’m inadequate? I’m not going to probably interact with that. If you’re telling me there’s only one way to live life, there’s only one prototype in order to be successful, to me. that’s like the narrowest of narrow ways of operating. We’ve been operating that for a way for a long time and oftentimes, it’s people that are saying there’s something wrong with who we were operating you have to do it this way now and there’s only one way. It’s so very obvious that that’s just not the world we live in now, I mean, you know one right path in your life.

KT: I just feel like there’s there’s so much wisdom in it.

NIKKI: Like it’s funny. I was speaking to somebody, uh two months ago and I was asking this person like who do you learn from and the answer that this is the other side of the spectrum the answer that she gave me was I am my own teacher. I’m enlightened. I don’t need anything else. Hmm.

And so to me, again, I’m not here to judge you, right, but to me, I’m like I learned so much from the understanding that the world isn’t centered around my experience. And so if I only rely on that, I’m creating those blinders in a whole bunch of ways. And so I think there is a part of this that we understand as you, especially at the last couple years, we need the ability to be with each other. We’re connected beings like that’s the goal, you know neglect can cause you to no longer be alive. We know these things and so it’s really important to understand that trusting yourself is important, but also thinking that you are the only authority or the only voice of wisdom can also lead us to paths where it just narrows and narrows or if you and doesn’t actually allow us to learn and then the unlearning part I think too, it’s this. If you actually focus on your strengths, it shifts your mindset in a way that gives you the opportunity to unlearn. When I talk about it, it’s like we don’t have to do this as much anymore.

So I appreciate that our phones are not this bad, but do you remember when we would have new things on our iPhone, it would like bring it back to factory settings. Delete everything and

KT: Yes.

NIKKI: We think about like if we really want to give ourselves the room to unlearn sometimes it’s about going back to factory settings on some of these things that are so deeply embedded in, indoctrinated into our understanding of ourselves in the world around us and it doesn’t mean you can’t learn the things you learned again, but you might be able to learn other things at the same time to complement each other.

So those same bugs don’t just make their way through and so I don’t know there’s there’s this element of I don’t know if this is coming through but self trust as you’re doing this too that I think is a really important part of discerning who and how you learn and if it’s still working for you and also might have worked for you a year ago, and it doesn’t now and that’s okay too.

KT: I so appreciate you bringing up the continual choice and it, I was talking with a friend the other day about this whole idea of just like applying the term unsubscribe to different things in our life because it’s not a permanent state. Yes, being subscribed or being unsubscribed from an email for example, those are binary. And yet you can resubscribe at at any point in time and that your factory settings made me think of that and this idea that as we unlearn or as we learn new things, we can change our relationship to that knowledge, we can use what serves us and leave the rest, that type of mentality the whole time and how there tends to be a very binary approach to having— to learning, to having knowledge, to holding it and when in actuality it’s a dynamic. It’s a changing thing because our perspective, our circumstances, the events of the world are always changing and are very dynamic. So the information, the content might be fixed, but our perspective and how it applies to our lives change over time.

The other thing I’m really grateful for you to bring up is the is the credibility and the critical thinking when it comes to learning and how that implies to trusting yourself and seeing the guidance and the wisdom you have within you already and not always being a follower and expecting somebody else to give you the answers or have more than you have. But also the difference between content consumption and learning right, because like we are in a content overload world, that is not new. I’m not not breaking news to anybody right now.

But just hearing how you go through the process of consuming content and differentiating that from truly learning it based on not just the credibility in your critical thinking about the context and the person behind or the organization and purpose behind that content. But also how much it fits within or doesn’t fit within how you want to be in the world and choosing not to place energy or time or a lot of thought into things where you know that it’s not good use of your time and the difference between that and it…you said like putting on blinders that idea, of it’s not shutting any doors instead.

It’s choosing to focus. Maybe that’s a really beautiful way to think about our continual learning. And learning is like, we’re kind of like we’re on a wavy like path. We’re like, oh I’m gonna turn away from that. I’m gonna dive straight into that rabbit hole, but knowing that it isn’t the same path for everybody, that it’s not the same path for each of us that it was yesterday and that is part of the journey. It’s part of navigating the uncertainty and the chaos and the potential of this world. Like our ability to process information is quite literally why we have these big old noggins. Why humans gestate for the amount of time they do and why we’re at the place that we are on the world with self-driving cars and super computers in our pockets and also all the incredible, you know, things that have been done in terms of land stewardship to art to all of the things. It’s these things so we’ve been wired to constantly learn and apply that knowledge.

NIKKI: Yeah or selectively not apply knowledge.

KT: Yeah, and I think you know, I’m clearly I am not, I never pretend to be a scientist. I am absolutely not a behavioral
evolutionary expert and also I can tell you from my armchair scientist stance like we, I think forget sometimes that learning is just part of being alive. It’s not just going to school or doing a deep dive to upskill for a new job. It is picking out the right mango at the grocery store. It is learning how to connect with each other over screens, how, learning how to adapt when that’s not filling our cup for connection. Learning not to stub our toe on the bed frame anymore. Which still working on that myself…

NIKKI: it’s my knee every time. I’ve got a permanent bruise.

KT: Yeah, in closing I wanted to say thank you so much for like dropping wisdom like you were throwing confetti at a parade. and also let us know, because we do not believe in shameless self-promotion here. We believe in advocating for yourself. And what is your ask of the folks who are watching this in the replay? Maybe seeing a clip on social, where can they find you? How can they engage with you? Besides of course connecting with you on OwnTrail? Yeah, which please do, please do, there’s so I mean, you’re, I love your journey and I cannot wait to see what milestones are gonna pop up next. I always get a little, I get like a little like when I feel like that you’ve updated something.

But how can people show up for you as you’re someone who’s showing up for people in the world?

NIKKI: Thank you for asking that question. It’s funny. I’m gonna answer it with a little bit of for themselves first then to me. Okay. So I think there’s a part of this that as we’re talking about all these elements there. Is this feeling generationally at times it’s like, okay. Well the Old Guard will age out. So I’ll just wait for that and be able to step into this new future. And so I think there is an important part of kind of active participation in this and I actually had a client that talked to me about the fact she’s like, well, I heard that like boomers are all gonna be retiring. So that’ll just like naturally fall out. It’s not how it’s gonna be often times when we don’t know who we are outside of our specific elements we hold well, I shouldn’t say we, previous generations grasp and hold to power. So we do need to actively participate in creating the future that we want to see. That’s all I’ll say there.

One other thing that I did want to add is I didn’t give concrete resource. This is going into my call to action of sorts is something that I call mesearch and so I actually give my clients like this list of diagnostic tools or exercises to really figure out how you operate and I do that in a couple different ways, but to answer your question of direct contact definitely OwnTrai, @nikkiinnocent on all the socials nikkiinnocent.com is my website and you can see all the different ways to work with me there.

I have a course that actually talks about unlocking your passion, which is really this idea of learning about yourself and learning the things that don’t work for you. So it’s really beautiful and it’s six part, on-demand take your time. The world is the world is consuming a lot of our attention these days so it’s not intended to make you feel like a failure or make you feel like you got to go fast. But I also do these weekly group coaching calls that I always like to think of as like a support group of sorts for your career, for what you want to do how you want to step into who you are and that’s a lot and I also do one-on-one conversations and and sessions of people but those are the conversations where it’s like, I think I’m doing this wrong, but let me throw it out. Like that’s the space to really be able to play with this stuff. It’s where I love to be because I love to witness and watch people stepping into this learning journey and unlearning Journey. So nikkiinnocent.com to check that out or nikkiinnocent.com/group will send you right to the group stuff. We do a free week for you to check it out. See if you like it. See if you like my style because again as you were saying Kt like, unsubscribe as a very real thing and I encourage people to unsubscribe and unfollow things that are no longer serving them in the moment and the understanding that you can always tap back into these places.

So I encourage you to consume whatever is helpful there and I also have a podcast so it’s another way for us to be connected one way or another so it’s called Checkbox Other and please join. Kt was on, you’re amazing. It’s amazing.

KT: We’re gonna drop all the links to all of that in the I was gonna say show notes. I can call it that, it’s just, so we’ll
have the links to all of that. Definitely connect with Nicki on OwnTrail, start conversations with each other. There’s some cool Help Beacons out there and I know Nikki’s always a great giver when it comes to supporting people on their help beacons and really guiding and witnessing as much as you can as people are navigating these journeys and and learning more about themselves or the world and going from there because that’s really hat’s how we got here. That’s how we’re going to make it through. It’s how we’re gonna get to whatever mountaintop we’re individually hoping to get to.

My ask of everyone besides obviously follow Nikki cuz she’s amazing, connect with me on OwnTrail…My ask is that we don’t stop the conversation here, as we’re looking to approach learning and unlearning from a different lens than traditional binary formal education or trainings. Let’s keep talking about it because the conversation opens up more space for collaboration to learn different things to have your perspectives challenged in a healthy way where instead f no, but we can hear more ‘Yes and’ and have a bigger toolbox to learn from and to apply to our life in the way that makes sense for us right then right now.

There’s a good reflection going on in on OwnTrail, so if you’re a member you can chime in on the reflection about how learning shows up in your Trail which for me actually, it’s not specific milestones. It’s more the through line, right? That’s how I found my way to where I am right now is learning from and that additive learning on all of the experiences that I’ve had and also a whole hell of a lot of unlearning because whoo these systemic issues run deep.

NIKKI: It’s other people’s luggage you’re walking around with, you’re like can I leave that there? This isn’t my bag. This isn’t even for my trip. I gotta go!

KT: But we’re making it lighter for the next generation right? And that’s that’s why we do the work. So thank you again Nikki so so much. Thank you everyone for watching and let’s keep talking.


Connect with Nikki on OwnTrail, nikkiinnocent.com, on social media at @nikkiinnocent and her podcast, Checkbox Other!

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